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Re: Fw: [E-Forum] Digest Number 635 (A QUERY FROM AARON STEWART)
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Tomorrow some body will come up with the figures that "Only 1% Kashtriyas
where there who ruled the BHARTA"
First we have to understand the cast system inside out , If somebody says
that division of society does not exists
in the modern World / Society than I feel sorry for him/her. though social
division of Ancient times served its purpose
to uplift the masses to higher levels by the dawn of Medieval times it
become so rigid and self promoting that it started
eating the society itself.
In today's terms
Kashtriyas are ="Army Generals"
Brahmins are = "Politicians, Doctors, Engineers , Lawyers etc."
Vaishs are = " Businessmen's, Industrialists etc"
Shudras are = " If you are not one of the above you guess"
Even today These professions are self promoting most of the people in these
modern professions have / want their kin's
in same profession.This always helps as skills mastered could easily be
passed from one generation to another and to every
bodies guess how it can help the society as a whole but if this goes on for
centuries the people will start taking people from
these for granted to be masters in their ancestral skill, so without much
hard work it becomes easier for them to establish in
society, So guess what happens next, the skill level starts dropping, by the
same time as these people had monopolized their
respective trades, others never got much chance to develop and ultimately
what happens is what has happened in BHARAT.
Why this never happened in other countries , those are newer societies
comparing to BHARAT and Never climbed to those
Levels where you want to monopolize ("In modern words getting Patent").
Getting rid of Caste system does not means that you can get rid of this
"Social Evil" , because this is a necessary evil in one way or another
("Personally I am against this") the terms maybe different in different
"Yugs" . What we are doing today or say the way we are organizing today ,
We never know what impact it will have on social beings "Yugs" down the road
unless we are so futuristic.
To me "Caste" is a term what was called "Karma, Jati, Varana, " and now
"Profession".
Good luck with numbers and figures
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Garg" <gargsam@hotmail.com>
To: <debate@indiapolicy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 15 November, 2000 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [E-Forum] Digest Number 635 (A QUERY FROM AARON STEWART)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >The method which the Brahmins who hardly constitute 3.9% of the total
> >Indian population, used to remain at the helms of affair inspite of
being
> >a 'Micro-minority' with their policy of "DIVIDE AND FOOL TO RULE." This
> >policy of theirs is being carried out by them with their strong
> >non-political organizations i.e. RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal and so many
othersof
> >which RSS is the mother organization of all. RSS remains busy
informulation
> >of their policies & planning's and find out ways and means of getting it
> >implemented. They have been achieving it through cultural and religious
> >enslavement of the dalit masses
>
> A simplistic and absurd analysis. The masses of India have never
> accepted central authority in matters of faith and religion for
> too long. This is one of the key reasons that both christianity and islam
> failed to impose their faiths in the masses of India despite trying for
2000
> years and having everything in their favour for much of
> this period.
>
> This notion of brahmins controoling the masses is as untenable as
> postulating that all Hindus believe in one central deity.
>
>
> >From: "C H R I India" <chriall@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in>
> >Reply-To: debate@indiapolicy.org
> >To: <debate@indiapolicy.org>
> >Subject: Fw: [E-Forum] Digest Number 635 (A QUERY FROM AARON STEWART)
> >Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 12:06:19 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Please help make the Manifesto better, or accept it, and propagate it!
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >PLeae feel free to comment on both pieces.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Dear brother Stewart,
> > > The method which the Brahmins who hardly constitute 3.9% of the
> >total
> > > Indian population, used to remain at the helms of affair inspite of
> >being
> >a
> > > 'Micro-minority' with their policy of "DIVIDE AND FOOL TO RULE." This
> > > policy of theirs is being carried out by them with their strong
> > > non-political organizations i.e. RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal and so many
> >others
> >of
> > > which RSS is the mother organization of all. RSS remains busy in
> >formulation
> > > of their policies & planning's and find out ways and means of getting
it
> > > implemented. They have been achieving it through cultural and
religious
> > > enslavement of the dalit masses. They have the necessary ingredients
in
> > > themselves to flourish their mission of enslaving the millions of the
> >dalit
> > > oppressed in India. These ingredients are:-
> > > 1- Firm determination,
> > > 2- Dedication,
> > > 3- Commitment
> > > 4- Coordination &
> > > 5- Sacrifice
> > > Their preparedness for supreme sacrifice for their cause is
the
> >real
> > > and rare quality which made them continue to be at the helms of
affairs
> > > despite being "MICRO-MINORITY". The brahmins do not hesitate in
putting
> > > their virgin daughters at stake for their society. This rarest of rare
> > > quality have made them to remain at the top. Though we used to call
such
> > > beautiful virgins as "VISH KANYA" (Vampires) who used to bewitch our
> >could
> > > be crusaders.
> > > It is really a pity on us that we could not produce another
> >Jyotiba
> > > Phule or Baba Saheb Dr. B.R. Ambedkar to do everything that require
for
> > > building up a mass movement to withstand brahminical oppression to
take
> >back
> > > our due share in the land and wealth of this land ours, have our due
> >share
> > > in the governance of our country and to have our due representation in
> > > judiciary which has been injudicious to us. All the past efforts of
the
> > > individula have proven futile due to imprudence and dishonesty on
their
> > > part. These individuals fails to sustain in the movement and finally
> >succumb
> > > to the tempatations from the brahminical trap. The percentage of these
> >few
> > > individuals could be imagined? There are on and around 20-25000
> >registered
> > > dalit organizations in India which claim themselves to be engaged in
> > > dalit-upliftment but nothing has been achieved in this regard so far.
> >Most
> > > of these organizations are on paper to celebrate Dr. Ambedkar's birth
> > > anniversary and slept rest of the year! As such these gigantic number
> >of
> > > the organizations have proven of no use.
> > > Sir, there is no dearth of dalit intellectuals and Drawingroom
> >advisors
> > > in India and abroad but no one is ready to step out. We have miserably
> >been
> > > failed to identify our friends and foes. For the final onslaught,
> > > identification and demarcation is a must. Until or unless, we
> >differentiate
> > > between our friends and foes and make a clear-cut demarcation, we are
> >not
> > > supposed to win our battle. It is not necessary that the one who born
> >with
> > > us to our mother is our own. The betrayal of the dearest and the
nearest
> >has
> > > found due place in the pages of History. We should be beware of Judas
> >and
> > > Vibheeshans from amongst us. Until or unless, we take on these Judas
or
> > > Vibheeshanas, our movement is unlikely to succeed.
> > > Sir, also take some pain to have a look on the following article
> >which
> > > itself will reveal as to how dalit movement failed in India and who
are
> >the
> > > culprits?
> > >
> > > WHY DALIT MOVEMENT FAILED IN INDIA?
> > >
> > > During past half century,
> > > WHY DALIT MOVEMENT FAILED IN INDIA?
> > > Who are the culprits?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear brothers,
> > >
> > > In view of political reservation granted to us was just for 10 years,
> >Baba
> > > Sahib Ambedkar has aspired that we should achieve political power
within
> >the
> > > span of this stipulated time because he was of the opinion, "Political
> >power
> > > is only 'Master-key' by which each and every lock is opened." He
further
> > > cautioned, "Political democracy could not last unless there lay at the
> >base
> > > of it social democracy which recognized liberty, equality and
fraternity
> >as
> > > the principles of life." Political power if achieved without
> >strengthening
> > > its social base, may evaporate without doing or achieving anything
> >concrete.
> > > That is why, Baba Sahib Ambedkar has advised the educated
> >dalits/untouchable
> > > for the political empowerment of our people. "My final words of advice
> >to
> > > you is to educate, agitate and organize; have faith in yourself. With
> > > justice on our side, I do not see how we can loose our battle. The
> >battle
> >to
> > > me is a matter of joy. The battle is in fullest sense spiritual. There
> >is
> > > nothing material or social in it. For ours is a battle, not for wealth
> >or
> > > power. It is a battle for freedom. It is a battle for the reclamation
of
> > > human personality."
> > >
> > > The brahminical people though micro-minority, are successful due to
> >their
> > > strong live social organisations. RSS, VHP, Bajrang Dal, Durga Vahini,
> >ABVP,
> > > PSSP, Vidya Bharti, Samskar Bharti, Bhartiya Itihas Sanklan Parishad,
> >Sewa
> > > Bharti, BMS and so on, are busy in their entrusted assignments and
> >liable
> >to
> > > their centralized leadership. All the organizations of theirs have
very
> > > strong co-ordination amongst them.
> > >
> > > But, where do we stand? What is ours output? Even after 53 years of
our
> >so
> > > called independence, are we in a position to withstand or counter
these
> > > Brahminical Organizations? Whether, are we conscious of their evil
> >effects?
> > > There are thousands of our registered organizations without any
output!
> >The
> > > obvious reasons behind this failure of ours is nothing but our
> >indifferent
> > > attitude towards the problem. We have ignored the simple formula of
> > > "Knowledge, thought and action".
> > >
> > > We have also ignored the findings of Lord Buddha that 'There was
> >sufferings
> > > in this world, causes of sufferings are there and how to remove the
> >causes
> > > of sufferings, are also there.' But how many amongst us are prepared
to
> >look
> > > at the sufferings of our people, how many try to know the causes of
our
> > > sufferings and how many are interested in removing it? Our people do
not
> > > believe in acquiring knowledge. Without proper knowledge, no thought
of
> >any
> > > worth could come out. Their vision too remains very short-sighted.
They
> > > cannot visualize the ensuing danger. They cannot find out the ways and
> >means
> > > even for their own sorrows.
> > >
> > > There are a few amongst us who think about the problem. Further, there
> >are
> > > far and few between who are worried about the ensuing danger? But,
> >nobody
> >is
> > > there who dare to come out and take up the command for the
emancipation!
> > > Aren't we still waiting for another Baba Sahib Ambedkar to do the
rest?
> >Isn'
> > > t it a pity on us that we could not produce another Baba Sahib out of
> >ours
> > > gigantic 750 millions (dalits-the S/C, S/T and BC) after 6th Dec.,
1956?
> >Do
> > > we believe in 'Action'? Had we ever launched a direct action? It is
true
> > > that the emancipation of our people involves social disturbances and a
> > > violent struggle which cannot be avoided. We are accustomed of
adopting
> >the
> > > line of the least resistance which has proven ineffective in the
matter
> >of
> > > removing our sorry state of affairs.
> > >
> > > Baba Sahib was of the same opinion, " You must create a crises by
direct
> > > action against the customary code of conduct of the Caste Hindus. The
> >crises
> > > will compel the caste Hindus to think and once they begin to think
they
> >will
> > > be more ready to change they are otherwise likely to be. The great
> >defect
> >in
> > > the policy of least resistance and silent infiltration of rational
ideas
> > > lies in this that they do not produce crises. The direct action in
> >respect
> > > of the Chowdar Tank at Mahad, the Kalaram Temple at Nasik and
Guruvayur
> > > Temple in Malabar have done it in a few days what million days of
> >preaching
> > > by the reformers would never have done."
> > >
> > > Please take it as granted that no social inequality and economic
> >disparity
> > > could be removed without a "REVOLUTION". It is true that intellectual
> > > encouragement should be there but for whom? For the purpose of our
utter
> > > failure, our people are divided into four categories viz.:
> > >
> > > 1- The Gullible Masses of Baba Sahib Ambedkar:
> > >
> > > Here in India, our people by and large are simple, illiterate and
> >ignorant.
> > > But, right from the beginning, they have even supported the so called
> >men
> >of
> > > Baba Sahib Ambedkar (B.P. Maurya, Ram Vilas Paswan, Kanshi Ram,
Mayawati
> > > etc.) with their empty stomachs and bare feet but nobody was
interested
> >in
> > > paying back to them! They have become self-centered and self-seekers!
> > > Everybody of them have used this gullible masses as a ladder. On
> >reaching
> > > the top (on acquiring 'paisa, position and power'), they have kicked
the
> > > ladder (our gullible masses). Instead of being the Messiah of our
> >society,
> > > they have virtually become the slaves of the brahminical tormentors!
> > >
> > > 2- The Pseudo Ambedkarites:
> > >
> > > They are limited to the knowledge of a b c d only and not interested
in
> > > going beyond that. For them knowledge means academic qualifications
> >which
> > > are sufficient to get job (service) for themselves or for their kids.
> >They
> > > do not bother to understand as to why our forefathers have to succumb
> > > abominable thralldom and inhuman injustice at the hands of the alien
> > > 'Aryans'. As to why, their livelihood was limited to Carcass! They
have
> > > nothing to do with the struggle of Mahatma Phule, Shahu Maharaj, E.V.
> > > Ramaswamy Naikar or even Baba Sahib Dr. B.R. Ambedkar. This category
of
> >our
> > > people are settled one in their lives. They are educated and employed.
> >They
> > > have enough time and money to educate the gullible masses so as to
make
> >them
> > > agitated and get them organized for the final onslaught. This category
> >of
> > > 'Ambedkarites' used to come out only once in a year on 14th April to
> >worship
> > > Baba Sahib Ambedkar! By acquiring paisa, position and prestige by
virtue
> >of
> > > reservation, they could have provided money, mind and direction to the
> > > 'movement' but they are limited to TV and Bibies (wives) only. Almost
> >all
> > > the officers and the employees, coming from our society, in
government,
> > > semi-government, private/public sector and entrepreneurs fall in this
> > > category.
> > >
> > > 3- Bastard Ambedkarites:
> > >
> > > This category of Ambedkarits is very dangerous to the very existence
of
> >our
> > > society. These are the people who have spoiled the efforts and
struggle
> >of
> > > Baba Sahib Dr. B.R. Ambedkar. They are the spoilers, not builders of
the
> > > society. They are the by-products and the evil effects of "Poona
Pact",
> > > enforced upon Baba Sahib Ambedkar by Mr. M.K. Gandhi. They have
nothing
> >to
> > > do with the miseries of the society, they come from. On occasions,
they
> >do
> > > name Baba Sahib but pampering the opponents of Baba Sahib and his
> >people.
> >It
> > > is true that they born to our mothers but satiating our sworn enemies.
> > > Should we call them our brothers or sisters? Never. That is what we
have
> >to
> > > differentiate? We fail to differentiate, rather. It is not the
Brahmins
> >or
> > > Brahminism can do anything wrong to us, it is the bastard Ambedkarites
> > > amongst us who play all the non-senses! They used to claim themselves
as
> >the
> > > progeny of Baba Sahib Ambedkar but licking the shoes of Atal Biharis,
> >Ms.
> > > Sonia Gandhi's, Jyoti Basus, Mamtas and so on. These includes B.P.
> >Mauryas,
> > > Sangh Priya Gautamas, Meera Kumars, Jatiyas, Balyogis, Shindes, Buta
> >Singhs
> > > etc. They used to be elected from reserved constituencies and then put
> > > themselves at stake with their respective political godfathers. They
can
> >be
> > > termed as retailers of dalit votes. Aren't they sucking all the fruits
> >and
> > > juice of the struggle of Baba Sahib Ambedkar?
> > >
> > > There is another category of these 'Bastard Ambedkarite' who have
taken
> >up
> > > whole-sale responsibilities of indirectly putting our society at the
> > > disposal of Atal Biharis, Sonia Gandhi's, etc. They have formed their
> > > respective political outlets fetching dalit votes in the name of Baba
> >Sahib
> > > Dr. Ambedkar and then put their respective political outfit at stake
> >with
> > > the negotiated party, may it be the Brahminical one! They too show and
> >claim
> > > themselves as the staunch Ambedkarites and ask people for their
support.
> >The
> > > day, they reach at the helm of affairs or near to it, they forget
> >everything
> > > and indulge in dishonest bargain for self. They are nothing but the
> > > whole-sale dealers of our gullible masses. This category includes
Kanshi
> > > Rams, Madame Mayawatis, Ram Vilas Paswans, Sharad Yadavas, Nitish
> >Kumars,
> > > Athawales, etc. They are the real culprits of our society and the
'Dalit
> > > Movement' as well. The Brahminical forces (Hindi Micro-Minority) can
do
> >no
> > > harm to us but it is these Vibhishanas who always come in between!
These
> > > Vibishans are making mockery of the Mission of Baba Sahib. They have
> >spoiled
> > > the atmosphere and created an atmosphere of disbelief, because they
> >didn't
> > > remain honest and faithful towards the gullible masses whom they
heavily
> > > owe. In order to wipe out Brahminism, let us firmly and sternly
> >concentrate
> > > on, as to how to deal with this Vibhishanism.
> > >
> > > 4- Staunch Ambedkarites:
> > >
> > > Staunch or true Ambedkarites means hundred percent Ambedkarites. This
> > > category of Ambedkarites is very rare. Those who have completely
> >engraved
> > > the ideals of Baba Sahib Ambedkar and willing to sacrifice of theirs
> > > including their own lives for the cause, are staunch Ambedkrites. Such
> >type
> > > of Ambedkarites do not bother even for their kith & kin. They remain
> >always
> > > ready to lay their lives for the cause. They can visualize the ensuing
> > > danger and get puzzled. They are the rarest one who bear and rear the
> >ideas
> > > of 'revolution' and always worried about how to put them into action.
> >They
> > > have the will-power to do anything for the cause. Before
enlightenment,
> > > Gautama Buddha was the first person to renounce everything for the
> >cause.
> > > Though, Being the son of a king, he had all the luxuries of life, but
he
> > > preferred renunciation for the gullible masses. Baba Sahib Dr.
Ambedkar,
> >an
> > > intellectual par excellence, could ensure all the luxuries for himself
> >and
> > > hid kith and kin but he too preferred the path of struggle to
emancipate
> > > their gullible masses. Why Gautama Buddha and Baba Sahib Dr. Ambedkar
> >could
> > > be able to do so? Because, they have the will power and are determined
> >for
> > > the sacrifice.
> > >
> > > At the moment, there is no dearth of true Ambedkarites who believe in
> > > revolution and are willing for any sort of sacrifice for the society,
> >they
> > > come from. They feel that they are heavily indebted of the struggle of
> >our
> > > emancipators. But the indifferent attitude of the 'Pseudo
Ambedkarites'
> >and
> > > an atmosphere of disbelief aired by the "Bastard Ambedkarites" as
> >mentioned
> > > above, are the only impediments in their way to emancipation of our
> > > unprivileged brothers and sisters of India.
> > >
> > > AN APPEAL:-
> > >
> > > Before we conclude, we must give a deep thought to it as to why the
> > > Brahminical forces are still at the helms of affair in this country of
> >ours
> > > which are the only our cause of concern. Why we have made our
democracy
> > > meaningless? Why our opponents are successful in their policy of
'divide
> >and
> > > fool to rule' in India. Let us try to find out ways and means for the
> > > success of our movement, before the things could go out of our hands!
> >Why
> >do
> > > we dither in pursuing our 'Mission'? Shouldn't we have an organization
> >of
> > > our intellectuals to guide and control the entire movement as in the
> >case
> >of
> > > RSS and its accomplice organizations? Could you avow please?
> > >
> > > With kind regards, Jai Bheem,
> > >
> > > Brotherly Yours,
> > >
> > > TEJ SINGH
> > > 16th July, 2000.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Message: 6
> > > > Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 20:17:26 EST
> > > > From: "aaron stewart" <multivalent@hotmail.com>
> > > >Subject: Anatomy of the oppression of the Dalits
> > > >
> > > >Fellow members,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have a few general questions for anybody who might have an
> > > >interest in helping me to find some answers. I hope that the simple
> >nature
> > > >of these questions do not irritate the other members of the forum.
My
> > > >initial question has to do with the method whereby the Brahmans
> >maintain
> > > >their system of cultural and economic oppression of the Dalits, given
> >the
> > > >disparity in terms of relative population size. I have heard from
> >various
> > > >different sources that the Brahmans only constitute 5-10% of India's
> > > >population, with Dalits (or various other "oppressed castes") making
up
> >the
> > > >remaining 90-95%. Given the disparity in population, one would
think
> >that
> > > >the Brahmans would have great difficulty in preventing the rise of
mass
> > > >movements amongst the Dalits that espoused an ideology of militant
> > > >resistance (perhaps even including the use of violence as a tool of
> > > >resistance). This query leads me to my next question, which has to
do
> >with
> > > >the cultural and political consciousness of the Dalits in India as a
> >whole.
> > > >I am wondering what percentage of the Dalit population espouses the
> >notion
> > > >of resistance to the tyranny of the Brahmans, versus those who have
> >taken
> > > >the oppressive measures of the Brahmans to heart, and have
consequently
> > > >developed low self-esteem. As an African-American, I can tell the
> >members
> > > >of the forum that do not live in North America that, despite the long
> >and
> > > >glorious history of the resistance of African-Americans against the
> > > >abomination of White Supremacy, many of our people today are
> >demoralized,
> > > >confused, and have adopted a "slave mentality" (i.e. viewing oneself
> > > through
> > > >the eyes of one's own oppressor). I was wondering if this syndrome
is
> >also
> > > >a problem amongst Dalits in India. I have already received many
> >excellent
> > > >recommendations of books that outline the creation of the caste
system
> >in
> > > >ancient India from the members of this forum. If anyone can make
> > > >recommendations of books that deal with the method employed by the
> >Brahmans
> > > >to sustain their tyranny in the modern period despite their minority
> > > status,
> > > > I would be very appreciative. Also, maybe somebody can recommend
> >books
> > > on
> > > >the image that the masses of Dalits have of themselves and their
> >struggle,
> > > >given their history as members of an oppressed group. I was also
> >wondering
> > > >if there are any Dalit daily newspapers in India with websites. My
> >final
> > > >education is about the Dalit Educational Literature Center. Does
this
> > > >organization still exist? If so, do they have a website? Perhaps
> >someone
> > > >on the forum knows about this. Thanks for taking the time to read
this
> > > >message.
> > > >
> > > >Sincerely,
> > > >
> > > >Aaron Stewart
> > >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> >http://www.hotmail.com.
> > > >
> > > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> > > >http://profiles.msn.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>________________________________________________________________________
> > >
> >
>________________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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